Trizia Wells

on ‘curiosity’

In this episode Sam is joined by Trizia Wells to explore curiosity – hear about Trizia’s curious career involving therapy, heritage, and theatre, plus some fascinating stories from decades gone by.

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View Transcript

Show Notes

Here’s all the info to on Trizia’s work:

History in Action –  Twitter and Instagram

Avalon Clinical Hypnotherapy  – Twitter and Instagram

Find Trizia’s heritage work on Twitter here.

‘Women’s Work’ – a Heritage Lottery funded project in Accrington, Lancashire, delivered through History in Action.

Guest Info

A photo of Trizia - she is a white female, with shoulder length red/brown hair. She's wearing a printed shirt with animals on and is smiling at the camera.

Trizia Wells

Trizia Wells’ curious careers include secretary in the City of London, teacher, Swedish massage and baby massage therapist, inclusion consultant, heritage consultant and now student clinical hypnotherapist.

Transcript

[music]

Sam McCormick:

Hello there. I’m Sam McCormick and welcome to Curious e-Motion. Today, we are joined by Trizia Wells to explore curiosity once more.

Trizia has had an amazingly curious career that has included as a heritage consultant, a massage therapist and inclusion consultant, and now as a student clinical hypnotherapist. Trizia also runs History in Action, who work with communities to tell their stories through performance.

So today, you can expect to be transported to a curious world of people, stories, and some fascinating information around the science behind our emotions. I had such a great time chatting to Trizia, and I hope you have a great time listening too.

A quick apology for the imperfect audio in this episode. As is the way with working remotely in a full lockdown, technology sometimes is a little out of control. Hopefully, you can forgive us though. Okay. Let’s go and meet Trizia. Welcome, Trizia.

Trizia Wells:

Thank you.

Sam:

Thank you so much for being here.

Trizia:

Thanks for having me.

Sam:

No worries. It’s lovely to meet you. We actually haven’t met in person yet, have we?

Trizia?

No.

Sam:

Hopefully, we will do one day. So you are here to talk about our curiosity value. So we’re exploring all of our different values at Curious Motion. We’re doing an episode or two on each one. And Trizia, you’ve chosen curiosity, which is very exciting. And I’m really keen to get your thoughts on this and learn more about your work as well through that. So when you hear the word curiosity, what do you think of?

Trizia:

That word curiosity it’s like a door opening. And that’s what curiosity is, really isn’t it, I think?

Sam:

Yeah.

Trizia:

So the very first thing I think of is curiosity killed the cat, which is probably indicative of my age and my generation. But I think curiosity, it’s a tapestry of adventure. Once you’re curious, you start asking questions, you start exploring, you start investigating, and you just don’t know what you’re going to find. And it’s interesting what piques different people’s curiosity. Some subjects, some topics leave people completely unmoved.

And then I can get very curious about things that are just very minor details. On a walk or something, I’ll say to somebody, “Oh, I wonder why the landscape in that– why there’s that bump in the hill there or what that mark is.” And they might have noticed it, but they’re really not bothered about it. Or I want to know the names of plants and birds and what have you.

And for me, it just helps make sense of the world if I can uncover more of what’s going on underneath. And I think that sense of curiosity about the environment, about the things that you see, the things that you hear, and about people as well particularly for me, yeah, it’s a gateway to loads more questions.

Sam:

I love that. Yeah. That’s the beautiful thing and probably the slightly confusing thing is that it does open up even more questions and more questions. Yeah. So in terms of people, just of picking up on that there, what is it that makes you curious about people?

Trizia:

So thinking about this, thinking about curiosity in my life, it’s that curiosity about people that has been the common thread throughout my life, from being a child, that’s now brought me to a big part of my work and looking back at it, that’s what’s underpinned it from growing up all the way through to my work.

And it’s right from when I was younger, listening to stories from my parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles around the table, and they would have been in the war. They would have been sort of teenagers at the beginning of the war and just going into work. So they did have service, but a lot of their stories were about just silly things that were– so they weren’t war stories, but they were stories that took place against the background of the war. And I just remember growing up in a family of three sisters around those sort of gatherings around the table, the cry was, “Oh, tell us, tell us.” We always wanted to hear a story. “Tell us more, tell us more.” And just being curious about people and how they lived and worked.

And I think that’s what brought me to history, to my enjoyment of history as a child. And that’s where a lot of my work has come from as an adult. What was it like? What was it like living then, whether it’s 20 years ago, 30 years ago? I mean, a lot of memories, a lot of my lifetime memories when chatting to other people, we’ve obviously got different memories of 20 years ago, 10 years ago. And it’s finding out about people’s experiences and people’s lives that I find absolutely fascinating. Maybe I’m just nosy.

Sam:

No. I think we learn, don’t we? We learn from other people’s experiences. That’s what this podcast is all about, really, as well. By sharing our stories and learning, you get a wider viewpoint on people’s experiences as well and build some empathy, build some awareness of different cultures, different ways of living as well, which I think is really important.

Trizia:

Yes, I think we find our humanity in stories. And when we hear those stories face-to-face or virtual face-to-face rather than just from books, that’s where we find our humanity when we’re watching a recorded documentary or interview or something or whether we’re talking to somebody. That’s where we find our humanity I think in people’s stories. Like you say, that empathy. Yeah, yeah. Stories are important.

Sam:

With your work, can you just give us a little brief bit of information? I know you’ve had different roles and you do various different things at the moment.

Trizia:

So most recently, I think that that sort of love of stories and just curiosity about people’s lives brought me to setting up History in Action with a colleague. And that’s all based around people’s living memories. So people who are still with us, but perhaps, in the ’70s and onwards who have memories of a different time. Time has changed a lot in the last 50 years. And the most recent project we worked on is called Women at Work or Women’s Work, I beg your pardon. And it’s about the working lives of women in the ’60s and onwards when apparently we were all entering a world of equality and equal pay and equal rights. But was that the case on the ground? And listening to these women’s stories, telling stories about one lady in particular, she went for a job interview and she would have been 17 or 18. And part of the interview was that the guy interviewing her asked her to go into an adjacent room and pee into a bucket. And this was then taken away and a pregnancy test was done. And if she had been pregnant, she would not have got the job.

Sam:

Oh, my God.

Trizia:

Which is absolutely shocking. And this would have been late ’60s, early ’70s. And this amazing woman was– we were having a laugh about it. And at the time, she said, “Well, I thought it was a bit odd, but you just did it. You just did it without questioning if you wanted the work. And listening to people’s stories like that and being able to sort of empathise and have a laugh without, “How much things have changed.”

So what we do at History In Action is we take those memories, and my colleague Mic Martin is a playwright and he takes the the oral testimony and creates a play script from those words. And then we bring in an intergenerational community cast to perform those stories in front of their community. So you might have a grandmother in the audience or a grandfather in the audience watching their grandchild, their teenage grandchild, re-enact a part of their life. And you can imagine that that’s a really powerful intergenerational connection. It’s a fantastic thing to do. And everyone who takes part gets such a kick out of it.

The last project we did was based on rugby league in Rochdale in Oldham. And we had these guys in their 70s and onwards. Ex-players. Professional players. And they had never they said that they were more frightened standing up and talking in front of an audience than they ever were going onto the pitch. And they were playing in the ’60s and ’70s when it when it was a tough, tough game. None of the rules I think now if you show some blood, you’re off the pitch for 10 minutes or something. No, they carried on with a broken leg. That’s the way it was.

And at the end of that, we had built up such a strong bond between the players and the cast and across those generations. Our youngest member was 13 and our oldest veteran player was in his 80s. And we still see each other every Christmas. Big Christmas get together. Not this year, obviously. And that connection is still there and very strong. And I think that’s just about sharing stories. And that is such a strong bond. And that history will go on to the next generation now. So I think it’s a very– curiosity about other people and listening to their stories is a very powerful thing.

[music]

Sam:

My next question is coming back to you as a child, so thinking about your own stories, and is there something that you loved doing as a child and do you still do any of that?
Trizia:
Yes. I loved doing loads of things as a child. Loads of things. What did I do? I loved listening to family history, obviously. I loved reading. I still do a load of reading. I used to read under the bed. If I bought a book for my friend– this is confessional time now. When I was about eight, we went on a family holiday. My friend Sally Dickson, if she’s listening, I’m so sorry, but the book I bought you while we were on holiday because it was your birthday while we were away, I laid under the bed and read it before I wrapped it up and gave it to you. I’m so sorry. So I loved reading. I loved drawing. I would open up the envelopes that came through the door and– to my parents’ letters and bills and what have you. I’d open them up and draw on the inside because I couldn’t get enough drawing paper. [laughter]

What else did we do? Sewing. We did a lot of sewing. Had a little loom. Collecting things. Would go down to the local farmer’s yard and collect feathers. Why? I don’t know what for. Don’t remember doing anything with them. Just exploring down by the river where we used to live. Riding a bike. Just just, yeah.

I sound like a tomboy, but I never climbed a tree. And I never learned how to do a cartwheel, either. That was very disappointing.

Sam:

I didn’t really, either. And I’m a dancer.

Trizia:

Oh. Wow.

Sam:

When I got into actually dancing for a more serious reason, it’s like, “Oh. I wish as a child, I’d learnt all of these quite difficult things to do.” It’s so hard when you’re an adult.

Trizia:

Yes, because it’s the– I think the cartwheel thing, for me, my sister was a gymnast. So she’s my twin. And she would just show off, cartwheeling around the girls. But for me, there was a physical fear about launching yourself. And I think as a child, as you’re nearer to the ground, it would be much easier to learn when you’re—

Sam:

Yeah. Less fear when you’re a kid, as well.

Trizia:

Yeah. I didn’t– I used to make perfume. That’s another thing I used to do. Go in the garden and pick flowers, and put them into a mushy pulp in water and insists that our mothers and aunties dubbed it on behind their ears. It probably smells more like an old pond than a delicate rose. That’s just come back to me. And lots of fancy games, I remember, with friends in the same street. Sticking a record on in the old record player.

Sam:

Oh, lovely.

Trizia:

And I particularly remember one summer, or maybe it was just a load of Saturday mornings, there’s the Planet Suite by Holst, and sticking that on. And then we have this sort of fancy, big square carpet or rectangular carpet in the lounge. And we do dance. We do like a creative dance thing. And we’d have to come in from different corners of the carpet and do our thing in the middle. And then somebody else would say, explain what the dance was, and…

Sam:

Yup. Been there, done that, too.

Trizia:

We’re a creative lot, aren’t we?

Sam:

Yeah. This is why I wanted to ask that question. Because sometimes, curiosity is associated with children, isn’t it? But I think there’s something in us. Well, I don’t know. It sounds like with you, as well. But I found that a lot of us do have that inner child in us. And actually, the opportunity to still explore some of these things, to tell the story as exactly like you are doing, is a really beautiful thing and really important for our wellbeing and for our quality of life, as well. So I love hearing what people did as a child. Because I think it’s also a bit of a insight into them as an adult.

Trizia:

Yes. Yes. Yes. You can often see– I think that’s very interesting. Because one of my careers has been as a teacher. And I spent probably about 12 years teaching primary age. And I would often look at particular individual children stood out across those years. And I kind of look at them and I think, “Gosh, I just really wish I could see what kind of adult you’re going to be.” And you can make those assumptions. And you can create the future adults in your mind. But I don’t know if they would have turned out like that tonight. So they go– I am curious to know, I won’t name names, I am curious to know about particular children who were either very, seemed to be very talented or just had a very quirky personality. So I’m curious to know how they turned out.

Sam:

Yeah, that would be so interesting. I wonder if we can. Get them to contact us and let us know. Maybe not.

Trizia:

I don’t want to name names.

Sam:

No. I know. Don’t worry. They’ll know. They’ll know if they listen to this right now. They’ll probably know. Because they would know you.

Trizia:

I think they will. I think one particular child, in particular, will know. Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah. Really interesting.

[music]

Sam:

So as well as History in Action, you’re also working with hypnotherapy, is that right?

Trizia:

I am, yes. So and again, that’s about people’s stories. I’m training to be a clinical solution-focused hypnotherapist and psychotherapist. And I started that as a response to lockdown. I mean, I’ve always been interested in the way the mind and body work together. I’ve also trained as a Swedish massage and a baby massage therapist. And as part of that training, we looked at a lot of research about the impact on the mind of the body and how the two are interconnected. And so when lockdown came and I needed another– somebody once said that I was obsessed by having a certificate. It’s not the certificate, particularly. But I have a lot of courses.

But it just seems such a logical step to start to train as a hypnotherapist. And again, it’s about listening to people’s stories in a very focused way, with their particular difficulties. But I think that’s the common thread. And so what I’m doing at the moment is working with people with phobias. And also, general anxiety, and stress, and sleep difficulties.

Particularly since lockdown, a lot of people find their sleep patterns disrupted. And it’s amazing that once you understand how the brain and the body work together, that it’s not– it can sound a bit kind of woolly and airy-fairy, but I’m actually a very science-based person, although I wasn’t brilliant at sciences at school. I do need to know the facts underlying what appears to be a miracle therapy. But actually, once you understand about the physiology of the brain and the way it works, it’s utterly rooted in science. And we understand more, now, with the advances in MRI scanning and neuroscience, generally.

We understand more now about how important it is that we are, that we do positive things. That we have positive action, positive thought, positive interaction with other people, and how important that is for our mental health and well-being. And why it is, and what’s going on in the brain when we talk to each other when we meet each other, which, of course, during lockdown has been so difficult. I mean, there’s a lot of science to show that when we share stories, for example, and people share positive emotions with you, that there’s a mirroring effect in the brain that brings around that same physiological response in your brain as they’re feeling when they retell a happy memory or laugh at an instant from their past where they were asked to pee in a bucket as part of a job interview!

Sam:

Oh my goodness. I’m glad they can laugh at that.

Trizia:

Yes. Yes. And because they can and every time they remember it and retell it, they’re getting a flow of serotonin in the brain, which is that positive, happy feeling, which is what enables us to cope with things like lockdown or other issues. So the hypnotherapy is really about helping people find their own inner resources to tackle whatever particular issue it is they’re bringing to me. It’s really fascinating and it’s another aspect of my curiosity I suppose.

Sam:

Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you’ve connected that. Again, that’s still about people’s stories, isn’t it? That’s a beautiful thing. I think if you are being curious about people opens all of these doors to you or curiosity in general opens these different avenues that you can use your skills, you can learn new skills, you can support others. Though sleep in lockdown I can say from personal experience, I definitely felt that sleep has been quite affected by lockdown. Has there been anything else that you’ve noticed with people directly affected by the pandemic?

Trizia:

Yeah, sleep’s a major one. And I think if we don’t get the right quality of sleep, it is very difficult to effect positive change in other areas of life as well. So a lot of the clients that I’m seeing, some are on furlough, some are still working, some have been made redundant. So yeah, I think sleep is a major issue and if we don’t get the right amount of sleep, it is difficult to cope with other elements.

But people are also generally finding it difficult to feel positive about what’s going on. And a lot of people just describe themselves as having lost their oomph, lost their mojo, trying to find their “da, da!” again. And I think that’s been a casualty of lockdown and it’s a casualty of not being able to interact with people in person, as I say that so you don’t get that sort of mutual benefit in the brain of having a laugh, sharing your coffee, going for a walk, whatever it is. Something happens in the brain when we share those experiences in person that really, great though technology is, there’s no sort of substitute for that interpersonal reaction and the benefits it has for mind and body. So that’s another big one that people describe during lockdown.

SamL

I think that’s really a very important point to make because some people have managed to cope okay with lockdown and to keep connected virtually and many of us are spending lots of hours on Zoom and platforms like this with each other. And it helps, doesn’t it, that there is that. There is something missing and I think that’s really helpful, or I would find it very helpful to understand okay, there’s actually something that my body and brain, and mind need can only be given in a face-fo-face context. And that’s quite helpful, I suppose, to understand that a little bit and actually have some reasoning behind it.

Trizia:

Yes, I think so. So as part of my sessions that I do with clients, I do a PowerPoint that explains– I love a good PowerPoint. With a diagram of the brain that explains what is going on physiologically in these particular areas of the brain in response to those particular triggers. And I think people do find that really really interesting to understand more why they feel the way they do, actually what’s going on at that sort of– that physiological level. And once you’ve got that understanding, you can put things more easily into perspective and perhaps feel less overwhelmed by emotions because you understand how they’re produced in the body and what’s actually going on. I’ve had a few– also a few university students as well who are finding it difficult because they’re not– again, because they’re not having that interaction with others and it’s very difficult to be self-disciplined. I find it very difficult, and I’m very old. But these young guys, they haven’t had the experience of getting into a routine and self-discipline. And so to be told that you’ve got to study at home is very difficult and do everything online. So that sort of anxiety and stress that arises from that. And I think if you can understand what’s going on underneath those feelings, it does make life more copeable with.

Sam:

Definitely. There’s going to be– well, I feel like all of this is going to just become more and more and more relevant, isn’t it? And the transition into hopefully this is the end of this version of a lockdown and transition into a life beyond COVID, I feel like we’re going to need all of this. We’re going to need our stories. We’re going to need our curiosity. We’re going to need the science. Yeah. Oh, wow. Trizia, you’re going to be really busy! [laughter]

Trizia:

I hope so. [laughter]

Sam:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[music]

Sam:

So you’ve got your training for your hypnotherapy. And History in Action, have you got projects on with them at the moment?

Trizia:

Yes. So the current project is Women’s Work. We’ve collected oral testimony from about a dozen women, and we are now at the stage of loading that onto a website. Because of the pandemic, we couldn’t do the usual, which would be to gather a community cast and then do a production. But what we can do is– it’s based in Accrington, by the way. So we’re working with the Oswaldtwistle Arts Centre. And I said that without getting it confused. So we’re working with them to find a community cast who will do filming. So a kind of Talking Heads version of filming once lockdown is lifted in May so that we can meet in groups of four – fewer than six, anyway – we can meet that criterion and do some filming on location in and around Accrington. Outdoor locations or very airy locations like the market hall. And that film will be, hopefully, edited– filmed and edited and be ready for a public screening in September in the market hall, which is a semi-outdoor space. So we hope that that will be– that lockdown and everything will allow us to do that.

And also those stories or extracts from the stories as well as being on the website are going to be installed in a talking chair. Yes!

Sam:

Oh, I love this.

Trizia:

So you’ll sit in a chair, and there’ll be pressure pads which will trigger an audio loop. The women’s interviews that are in full on the website lasts about 20 to 40 minutes, but there will be sort of three minute extracts on this chair on a loop because apparently that’s as long as people can concentrate for. And the chair will– we are hoping that it might go on a little bit of a tour in the summer, but it will certainly be installed in Accrington Library in September. Lockdown permitting. COVID permitting. And so for the foreseeable future, for the next 5, 10 years, people will be able to sit on that chair and listen to perhaps their auntie, their grandma, the lady down the road, talk about their experiences during the ’60s and ’70s working in and around Accrington. And we’ve got some cracking stories. They just—

Sam:

Oh, I bet you do.

Trizia:

–make you laugh out loud when you hear them. They’re lovely.

Sam:

Oh, I love that. Oh, yeah. Oh, I can’t wait. Keep us posted.

Trizia:

I will do.

Sam:

It sounds amazing.

Trizia:

I will do.

Sam:

Sounds absolutely amazing.

[music]

Sam:

The last question I’m going to ask you, which is what we are asking all of our guests on this series– well, it’s actually two questions. I’m terrible at that. I’m like, “Here’s one question.” But it’s actually two together. Is, here we go, which three things would you like to spend more time on in your life? And what about less time?

Trizia:

I’m going to go with less time first because as a student clinical hypnotherapist, I know that talking about negative things is less good for the brain or not so good for the brain. So I’m going to finish on a positive note, so I’ll talk about less time first.

Sam:

Good idea.

Trizia:

I would like to spend less time doing paperwork. Who knows if that will ever happen? [laughter] Because I think the whole thing about paperwork is, if you don’t do it, it’s a burden for me, even though I actually quite enjoy it once I start. I don’t know why.

Sam:

I know exactly what you mean. I really do. The thought of it is pretty horrible, but actually it’s quite a nice ticking off process.

Trizia:

It is. Yeah.

Sam:

There’s some sort of pleasure in it.

Trizia:

There is, actually. I even like doing my accounts. But I’m more frightened of– yeah, the thought of is ridiculous. So that’s one thing. I’d like to spend less time decorating. So as I’m now– I’m in the throes of moving into a multigenerational household, and we’ve all moved in together and currently are in the throes of doing that house up. And it’s not just decorating, but it’s– there’s a lot of plaster dust around at the moment. And when you’re in the middle of that, you just feel it’s never going to end.

Sam:

I was in that situation in September last year. And yes, you feel like the world– I mean, you’ve got lockdown to deal with as well. But plaster dust is very depressing.

Trizia:

It is. You can almost taste it, can’t you?

Sam:

It’s horrible.

Trizia:

And you go around with a wet cloth and you put up the wet sheet, but weeks later, it’s still in the bottom of your teacup. [laughter] And then I’d like to spend less time buying things that I then don’t use, wear or enjoy. Which I’ve got better about doing that in lockdowns actually. But at the beginning, it was like, “Oh, well, I can’t go to the shops. I better buy it online.” And Amazon came every day. I am a bit better, but I’d like to spend less time doing that, I think. And more time I want to spend more time gardening. So I’ve got a new garden to play with now. So that’s exciting. I want to spend more time walking and I want to bag a few trig points as well throughout the country. So had a bad back since last July, but it’s getting better, and hopefully this summer I’ll be able to get out and walk more.

Sam:

Yeah. Lovely.

Trizia:

And then I want to make– spend more time for the rest of my life being disciplined about making photobooks. [laughter]

Sam:

Photobooks? Oh, I love this. Okay. Tell me more.

Trizia:

So I take my phone, I take my camera and take loads and loads of pictures and then I might share them on WhatsApp and then I never look at them again. And then every so often my phone says, “Oh, your iCloud is full.” And I go on and I pull down the photos off the big world wide web and just during lockdown, actually, there’s a friend of mine who got me into this. I have my two photobooks of lockdown photos. [inaudible] really easily online. You can put captions on everything, and then you’ve actually got a book to look at. So I’ve had some fantastic holidays and never looked at those photos again. So I want to be more disciplined about whenever this month or holiday goes by or an occasion goes by, actually taking the photos. Yes, which I do. And then going back, editing them, putting them into a photobook. And that’s what I want to spend more time doing.

Sam:

Oh, I love that. That’s another story, isn’t it?

Trizia:

It is, yeah.

Sam:

It’s telling your stories again. I love that so much. And that’s a really good point because it is very easy now, isn’t it, for a lot of people to just take photographs wherever you are, and you can kind of get into the habit of just doing it if it’s on your phone or whatever. But it’s a really good point that I mean, how often do we really go and look at them?

Trizia:

And share them and share those stories again. I mean, I’m going to sound ancient now, but I remember even so much– my daughter’s 39 and even as a child, when she was a child, so 39 years ago, her dad and I, we would go on a foreign holiday, which was quite exotic then. And then when we got back, we’d invite our friends around for an evening to look at the photographs and they loved it. I know people are rolling their eyes thinking, “No, they didn’t.” Well, they certainly seemed to. We’d have a meal and we’d look at each other’s holiday photos. Now that I know as a clinical hypnotherapist, that when you relive those great times, you’re producing brainwave patterns that produce serotonin. So you’re sharing that with other people; they’re getting some serotonin hits too, and it’s a feel-good feeling. And so if you’ve got them in a book, you’ve got a few captions, when people come around, you could say, “Oh, look at my photos.” Or you could just leave it. When you’ve got an overnight guest, you can just leave it in the room for them to look at. But it’s something to share and it’s a good thing, I think.

Sam:

That’s beautiful. I love that. You can have it on your little coffee table for whenever we’re allowed to have people around again. And most of us, I think most of us are probably curious about other people’s lives in general, aren’t we?

Trizia:

I think so.

Sam:

And I know I’ve definitely been there when somebody puts their TV on and then shows you a slideshow of photographs and you’re a bit like, “Okay, this place is beautiful and I didn’t get to go, and okay, lovely.” [laughter] But it’s not very tangible in the same way as a book is.

Trizia:

Yes, yes. And you can choose to pick up that book and look at it for as long as you want to and you can choose to ask questions. You’re not a captive audience in the same way as in a slide show.

Sam:

Sitting there in front of the TV like, “I love it. It’s been an hour.”

Trizia:

And that one’s just the same as the last one, but from a slightly different angle.

Sam:

That’s that really lovely beach again I wish I could go to, and you spent five weeks out or something. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Oh, that is lovely. And I suppose it’s coming back to that physical, being able to touch things, being able to actually really experience everything about sharing the photograph rather than it being on a screen. And I think we’re all going to be really dealing with huge screen time already, aren’t we? So the less we can be on a screen, the better.

Trizia:

Yeah. I think maybe post-lockdown, there’s going to be a return to sort of the more physical aspects of a lot of things like photographs, rather than being on the phone and things that you can touch and feel and share like that.

Sam:

Definitely. Well, Trizia, let me know when you’ve got some of these books ready.

Trizia:

I will. I will invite you round.

Sam:

I’d love to see it. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Maybe that’s what we can do when we’re allowed to actually see each other in person and actually meet each other in person, which feels a bit silly, but that is the way it is. That’s what we can do. You can share photobooks.

Trizia:

Share photobooks. [laughter]

Sam:

Love it. Oh, brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Trizia. It’s been absolutely wonderful hearing about your thoughts around curiosity and your work. And I think we should have you back on to talk more about your sort of the stories you’ve collected over the years and things as well because I’m sure there’s absolutely loads in there—

Trizia:

I’d love to.

Sam:

–that we can chat about. So yeah, thank you so, so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Trizia:

Well, thank you. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you.

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Sam:

Oh, thank you, Trizia, for such a fun and fascinating episode. Ever since we recorded this a few months ago, Trizia’s stories have often popped into my head, and I just love Trizia’s creative approach to curiosity and celebration of heritage.

Curiosity really can lead us anywhere, which is why we’re so fond of it.

Do you keep an eye out for History in Action’s latest project, Women’s Work? And Trizia is going to be based in Orpington from September with her hypnotherapy business, Avalon Clinical Hypnotherapy. So do look her up if you want to know more. As always, the links are in the show notes, which are also on our website.

Coming up this series, we have some more incredible guests from different walks of life. And for the remaining episodes, we’re going to be focusing on inclusion whilst also exploring empathy and compassion, also closely linked to each other. So make sure to subscribe so you know when the next one is out, and give us a like too if you can. It really helps us reach as many people as possible. Thank you so much.

Until next time, remember to tune into your body, be kind to yourself, and stay curious.

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